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July 1, 2008 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/world/africa/01transcript-droukdal.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
An Interview With Abdelmalek Droukdal
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Following is a transcript of audio responses to questions from The New York Times for Abdelmalek Droukdal, the leader of Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. The responses were in Arabic and were translated by The New York Times.
The New York Times: Why did you join Al Qaeda?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: Praise to God and peace and blessing be upon God’s prophet, his family, his companions and his allies. As for the answer to your question, why did we join Al Qaeda? We say, why shouldn’t we join Al Qaeda? God ordered us to be united, to be allied, to cooperate and fight against the idolaters in straight lines. The same way they fight us in military allies and economic and political mass-groupings. Why shouldn’t we join our brothers while almost all these nations got united against the Muslims and separated them, and divided their land, and took away Al Aksa mosque out of their hands, and consumed their goodness, and destroyed their morals? Then look at the crimes that happen in Gaza and Iraq and Afghanistan, and Somalia and others places. These crimes are committed by the Jew-crusader ally. But when the Muslims get together to defend themselves, they blame them for getting together and accused them with mass-grouping, and made an approach about their unity. Yes, we see that it’s our duty to join Al Qaeda so that we can have our fight under one flag and one leadership in order to get ready for the confrontation. An ally is faced by another ally, and unity is faced by unity. The joining was a legitimate necessity by the book of our God and the sunnah of our prophet, peace and blessing be upon him. It was a mindful necessity imposed by the actual reality and the international system that is full with injustice against the Muslims. Many analysts and observers are mistaken when they think that our joining was a result of secular accounts and self interests. We are a jihadi ancestral community. We rely on legitimacy (from religion) before anything else as a base of our decisions.
The New York Times: What have you gained from your relation with Al Qaeda, and conversely what has Al Qaeda gained from your joining?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: As we mentioned in our previous answer that our joining to Al Qaeda wasn’t a deal that we try to gain something out of it, as many of those who call themselves experts in jihadi groups promote. In reality, they are way far from the real understanding of the jihadi ancestral movement. We say that we realized and we got from this joining many goals. The most important one is that we believe that we won and acquired the pleasure of God by following his order. God’s says “hold on to the rope of God and do not be dispersed.” If there was nothing to realize from this joining except following the order of this verse, we would never hesitate to do so.
Secondly, we realized a condition and a reason for victory. If difference and division are causes of weakness and defeat as it was mentioned in our religion “And fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power departs.” (Koran: Chapter 8, Verse 46). Unity is a reason of strength and victory. This is a universal norm that even the infidels are aware of. All these mass-groupings and the international alliances are proof of that. We Muslims must be the ones who apply this universal norm.
Thirdly, by this unity we brought grief and sorrow to our enemies the Jews and apostates and crusaders.
These are some of the most important goals, which are many, thank god. We hope that we got our God’s pleasure, and the confidence of our nation, and that we made terrorized our enemy.
The New York Times: We understand that the correspondence between you, Abdelmalek Droukdal, and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 1994 and 1995 by e-mail played a decisive role in your joining to Al Qaeda. Is that true?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: The date that you mentioned is wrong. Maybe you meant the years 2004 and 2005. Yes, we don’t deny the pivotal role of the martyr of the nation Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, may God bless him, in the joining operation since its first phases. We ask God to reward him with the best reward for what he has done for Islam, jihad, and for the nation. Nevertheless, we don’t underestimate the efforts of many of the brothers. Because the joining operation relied on other channels and contacts that other brothers participated in them. May God reward them goodness on our behalf and Islam’s behalf.
The New York Times: Did Abu Laith al-Libi and Atiyah Abdel Rahman help in making your contact with Al Qaeda?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: We don’t want to mention persons in particular, but there was a participation from many brothers to make the contact and there are many channels that allow us to do it. Thank God.
The New York Times: As we understand, you continue to communicate with Qaeda leaders in Waziristan. Is this true? And what is the nature of the information you exchange?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: We care about staying in contact with our brothers in Afghanistan or Iraq or any other jihad side. Our project is one. Therefore, we have to help, advise, consult each other, and exchange the experiences and coordinate the efforts to face the world’s crusade war against Islam.
The New York Times: Does Al Qaeda give you any assistance? And if so, what is the nature of this assistance?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: We and Al Qaeda are one body. It’s normal that they get stronger by us and we get stronger by them. They back us up and we back them up. They supply us and we supply them with any kind of support, loyalty, advice and available support.
The New York Times: Do you have any support in Europe? And if so, how much and what kind?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: Yes, there are people who are sympathetic with us in Europe and elsewhere. The Muslims are sympathetic with Al Qaeda because its cause is just. Also, most of the Muslims including those residing in Europe are against the crusade war lead by America, and they hate the Arab regimes that are working as agents and that crushed their people and sold the Palestinian cause in the give-up market. But what should be thought about is that whoever is arrested by the European governments in Spain, France, Britain or Italy and allegedly say that they are related to our organization, all that is a lie, and deception, and injustice. The problem is that the European government started judging the Muslims about their intentions and their sympathy with the Muslims’ causes. This comes from the crusade’s religious hate that moves the West, and that blew up all the bright slogans that they hold dear, such as freedom, forgiveness, human rights and justice, those slogans that they hurt our hearing with for years.
The New York Times: How many active fighters do you have?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: Thank God we have enough fighters to make our enemies lose. It doesn’t matter if they were in hundreds or thousands, because the numeric factor in the unification doctrine is the last and the weakest of the influencing factors in the equation of victory or defeat. We have a holy Koran and a pure sunnah [the way of the Prophet Muhammad] and a large history that has a balance of tests, and it’s full with examples that prove that the victory of the believers during all past generations, since prophet Moses until today, is from God. God says “There is no help except from God: and God is exalted in power, wise.” (Chapter 8, Verse 10) and “If God helps you, none can overcome you. (Chapter 3, Verse 160).
It’s not from themselves or from their large number or arms. Lately, specifically in Algeria, France left defeated in 1962 after the liberation war, even though the day it went out it was and still is a military superpower, the third or fourth power in the world. Meanwhile, the power of the mujahedeen in Algeria went backward in the last few years of the revolution. They were weaker when France went out, compared to the years that represent for the revolution its top power and hest ascendancy. You see today many wars against Islam in many places, and where barely a tracker finds any mentioned role of numeric superiority for the mujahedeen. Nevertheless, we stress that we possess a huge inventory of men. This inventory gets wider, bigger and spreads with time. We use it according to the necessity and according to our available material. As far as the numbers that the Interior Ministry has given, the confusion and the contradiction that they contain make them unreliable and subject of ridicule between people.
The New York Times: Where do your fighters come from?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: The large proportion of our mujahedeen comes from Algeria. And there is a considerable number of Mauritanians, Libyans, Moroccans, Tunisians, Mali’s and Nigerians brothers.
The New York Times: How many of your fighters have returned from fighting in Iraq?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: What the media is promoting about the existence of a large proportion of fighters in Iraq that came back and joined us is wrong. But there is a limited and very small number of the mujahedeen brothers who fought in Iraq than came back and joined us.
The New York Times: How many men have joined your group after being released from prison through the government’s amnesty program for convicted militants?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: If you mean those who came back from Iraq. As I said their number is very limited and there is nobody among them that the government released. But if you mean those whom the government released, within what you call reconciliation, and then joined the jihad, they are plenty, thanks to God. And this is proof that the reconciliation program that [Algerian President] Bouteflika promotes has failed badly, and the matter of jihad is still alive inside the hearts of the Muslims in Algeria.
The New York Times: What are your goals?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: God says, “And fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes God’s in its entirety.” (Chapter 8, Verse 39) Our first goal is the arbitration of the Lord of the world’s law, and the achievement of the servitude to God. Our general goals are the same goals of Al Qaeda the mother, and you know them. As far as our goals concerning the Islamic Maghreb, they are plenty. But most importantly is to rescue our countries from the tentacles of these criminal regimes that betrayed their religion, and their people. Because they are all secretions of the colonialism that invaded our country in the last two centuries, and enabled those regimes to govern. Therefore, they started governing for its account and on behalf of it. They implement its programs and protect its interests and fight Islam on its behalf. It’s never going to be possible for this region to stabilize unless its people start enjoying freedom and dignity and security under Islam. The conditions of stability will not be available in the presence of these corrupt and harming models that proved for decades that they are unable to achieve the least rapprochement between their people in any of the areas. We are one nation with one religion and one language. Our history is the same but our land is divided, torn apart into states by colonialism.
After half a century since independence, there is a clear deliberate action from the agents of colonialism in creating this rupture. More than that, there are hidden intentions that enlarge and deepen the chasm between its people. The Sahara issue is the best witness about that. What is strange is that the Moroccan regime according to its claim seeks to annex the Western Sahara that is ruled by Saharans. In the mean time, it is as silent as an accomplice about the occupation of Centa and Melilla by the Spanish crusaders. The same thing applies for Algeria, They claim that they strongly support the principle of the right of the people to decide their self determination, while a few days ago they refused to acknowledge the independence of Kosovo from the criminal Serbian entity. Even though the Muslim people of Kosovo chose to be independent in the elections that was supervised by the U.S administration and the U.N and NATO. Therefore, one of our goals is to stop this tampering and make an end to these foolish and blind policies, and rescue our Islamic Maghreb from the project that was designed to destroy it. Also, we seek to liberate the Islamic Maghreb from the sons of France and Spain and from all symbols of treason and employment for the outsiders, and protect it from the foreign greed and the crusader’s hegemony.
The New York Times: Do you intend to attack any American interests in Algeria?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: When we carried arms we declared that we are fighting the crusaders’ agents among those rulers who came out against Islam and committed crimes of corruption and tyranny and treason against the religion and the nation. And we said that we want to bring back the place of Islam in the country and the ruling of the Koran over the people, and bring to the nation its rights that were taken. But what happened later on is the West. They provided it with all kind of support and encouraged it and supported it in the forums. It did not stop there, it even went further to a direct intervention. Then we found ourselves on the black list of the U.S administration, tagged with terrorism. Then we found America building military bases in the south of our country and conducting military exercises, and plundering our oil and planning to get our gas. Also, opening an F.B.I. branch in our capital city, and starting an unusual Christian conversion campaign among our youths to change their religion in order to create religious minorities among us.
Its embassy in Algeria began playing almost the same role as the American Embassies in Baghdad or Kabul. It intervenes in the internal policy by planning, instructing and controlling. All of that just to kill the spirit of jihad and resistance among the Muslims so that it can put its hand on the energy stock that we have. So did America leave us any choice with this flagrant aggression? No doubt that the answer is going to be no. Therefore, it became our right and our duty to push away with all our strength this crusade campaign and declare clearly that the American interests are legitimate targets to us.
We will strive to strike them whenever we can. And we are sure that America is going to loose its war against us like it lost it against Afghanistan and Iraq. It’s America that is unfair and that started evil and injustice. Injustice is the greatest cause of the disappearance of the countries even if they were Muslims. Why not and America has the both infidelity and injustice. “And those who did wrong will know what they will end-up with.
The New York Times: Do you intend to carry out any attacks on American soil?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: If the U.S. administration sees that its war against the Muslims is legitimate, then what makes us believe that our war on its territories is not legitimate? Everyone must know that we will not hesitate in targeting it whenever we can and wherever it is on this planet. We say to the American people who are driven to more catastrophes by the Bush administration: If you are truly looking for your security and safety then listen carefully to the speeches of our sheik and emir, Osama bin Laden, may God protect him, who advised you to stop supporting Bush and his policies and to unseat your government that is invading the Muslims’ homes. Otherwise, Bush and his administration will drive you to abyss and loss.
The New York Times: How strong is organization in the Maghreb? How much support do you have?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: Yes, we do have a lot of support from our Islamic nation in the Maghreb. This generous nation that gave and still giving the best of its sons for the jihad. Without this support our fight against this puppet regime and its masters wouldn’t last for 16 years continuously despite the French and the Americans’ material and information support, and despite the alliance of the Maghreb regimes and the coast region against us. The Maghreb region is witnessing an awakening blessed jihad in Mauritania, Morocco, Libya, Nigeria, after the nation and its youths discovered the size of employment for the crusaders and the treason committed by this government against its people.
The New York Times: What is your view on the estimated $120 billion the Algerian government has collected from oil and gas sales, and the criticism that the government has not spent this money on programs to help create jobs for Algerians?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: This is the greatest kind of crime and theft against our nation, and among the greatest methods of looting and robbery that these robber governments are characterized with. The country is floating over a sea of oil and gas. The size of the revenue never stopped getting larger, year after year, and month after month. It’s ironic that as the line is on the rise in oil revenues, the line of the living standards of the population is in decline. It is logic that this situation drags us to ask this question: Where does the oil and gas money go? The Algerian finance minister months ago said he doesn’t know where is this money, and after a short time from this statement the supreme authority wanted to rectify this scandal, and then announced that 60 percent of this money is in the American banks and that 40 percent is distributed between Britain and France and Japan.
Do you now know who is the first beneficiary of the $120 billion? It’s the American and European economy, and the way of the remaining percentage of the money is opposed by the senior thieves deployed in all the official institutions starting by the presidency of the republic, passing by the ministry of fuel and trade, and the ministry of defense which its generals conquer the drug trade, the smuggling of goods, transfer of property, looting of public money through embezzlement, bribery and types of commissions.
How is it possible for the country to benefit from this wealth if the president himself is considered to be a burglar with criminal records? In the 1980s he was required by the court of suppress of economic crimes, and his story is well known.
In short, the beneficiaries of the energy revenues in the first place are the American and European economy, followed by the thieves that are ruling the country. The rest is spent to fight the jihad and the mujahedeen by acquiring weapons that are directed only towards the chests of the Muslims, and airplanes that don’t stop shelling the best children of the nation in the mountains.
As far as the conditions of the poor people, they will not change. The poverty will remain plagued in the body of the nation. The boats of death will remain throwing the desperate youths to the sea. All the honorable in the nation, the intellectuals, unions, students and advocates should resist this plunder. They should incite the nation for jihad and martyrdom in order to recover the rights taken away. The Muslim youths must not take the policy of escape and clandestine immigration, they have to carry the weapon to take back their rights and push away the domination of those agents.
The New York Times: How do you respond to critics who say the Algerian government has weakened your operational abilities, and that the passage of April 11 without a large attack was evidence of this?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: The Algerian government can lie to the public however it wants and it can make its effort to field facts. But what can not be hidden is that its soldiers are killed constantly and that the bombs of the mujahedeen harvest dozens of them monthly. And that the western interests cannot be protected, and that it will get its share also as we did with the U.N. and the Interpol headquarters and the embassy of Israel in Nouakchott, and the German hostages, then the Austrians.
Just as a reminder, this is not the first time that they repeat this talk. For years, they described the mujahedeen as tattered and tearing. But, during the recovery of the jihad in the last few years people discovered the size of the government’s misleading of them with the complicity of the Algerian press that is dependent, especially in what concerns the security news that is controlled by the intelligence agencies. Concerning the April 11th question and that we couldn’t strike this year in this date, of course we are not stupid to let our enemy define for us the date when we should strike. But, by the strength from God, we define the date and the place. The apostates and their masters have to wait for the strikes that the heroes of Islam will generously do in the right place and time.
The New York Times: Some people have criticized the December 11 attacks in Algiers, saying innocent people were killed. How do you justify this?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: We are not insane to target our Muslim brothers. We left our homes and took this long and tiring road and we sacrificed ourselves and our efforts and our time only to defend the Muslims and to preserve their lives and their holy sites. This lie that the media is repeating about us is very untrue, and its objective is to mangle us and to isolate us from the nation so that they wouldn’t sympathized with us.
If we really wanted to strike the civilians, we could have reaped hundreds in one strike by targeting the markets and the transportation and the public gatherings. Our goals in our fight are very clear, which are the military and official targets of the government and the Western interests. We make sure as much as we can in our attacks that no Muslim gets hurt. But, the government and the press lie to the people and say that the people who died in the U.N headquarters are civilians. But the truth is that more than 95 percent of the injured are associated with the U.N. headquarters and are from the crusaders and from the police and guards, eventually with a civilian dress. Those are not all civilians. Also the people associated with the blasphemousness Constitutional council are in the scale of the commencing (religion) fighters and enemies of Islam. And those who were injured in Batna when Bouteflika was targeted, they were police and military intelligence wearing a civilian dress. So, are those civilians? This is lying and mangling that’s all. It’s the same thing that the Americans and the apostate government are doing in Iraq. They ignore 30 killed apostate police men and focus on one Muslim who got hurt unintentionally.
Also, most of the time they call the police civilians and this is mangling and media war, nothing more. We assure our Muslim brothers that they will not get hurt by their mujahedeen brothers. We sacrifice our souls and blood to defend you and to protect you from the sons of France and the agents of America. Our nation must know that we are in a war against the apostates and their crusader masters. Mistakes may occur in the war but they are unintentional. We seek pardon from God and we apology to our nation about that.
The New York Times: Have you had to adjust your tactics in any way to deal with the support provided to Algeria by America, such as electronic surveillance or night vision goggles?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: Of course, we do modify our strategy according to each stage. And we have an advice council and senate that convene each time to put down the plans and the strategies for the phase. It also assesses the previous phases and remedies the deficiencies and takes into account the development on the jihad ground. The Americans entered the line and they have bases on the Algerian territories and other places even if the government lies and claims other than that. Then they (the Americans) provide the Algerian military with developed materials as you mentioned and they train the security services in the Sahara, and provide them with information and air watch. We draw our power from God, glory to him, and we rely on him “on God the believers shall rely.” God is greater than America. America or other than America will not frighten us, but we never underestimate the reason. We do strive to make the right plans to face this evil alliance against Islam and the Muslims. America must know that when it gets involved in a war with the sons of Youssouf ibn Tachfine and the grand children of Tarik ibn Ziyad, then the region will turn on fire under America’s feet, if God permits it. We will mobilize the sons of the Islamic Maghreb in order to soak the nose of the Americans in the mud, and put into their account that’s already filled with defeats, another defiance.
The New York Times: What do you see as your biggest accomplishment to date, and your biggest failure?
Abdelmalek Droukdal: We believe that our greatest achievement is that the jihad is sill continuing in the Islamic Maghreb for 16 years. And today it is developing and climbing. By the generosity of God we were able to transfer our jihad from the country to regional, and we were able to expand our activity to the Maghreb states and the African coast, and we could participate in the regional awakening jihad. Based on their sacrifices and their blood, our mujahedeen could keep the jihad reason and carry the flag generation after generation, and revive the absent duty in the hearts of the Muslims. Today, we receive a lot of requests from some Muslims who want to do martyrdom operations. In Mauritania, Morocco and Tunisia we see Muslim youths who support our matter, they are ready to sacrifice themselves and their money for the sake of supporting Islam. We consider this as one of our greatest achievements. Among our greatest achievements is that we realized unity with our brothers as an important step towards the adult succession. Also, we did not weaken and we remained on the road, we developed our jihad and we revived the jihad matter in the heart of our nation after it was absent for a long time. This is a big change in the region and we thank God that he enabled us to participate in its achievement. We ask his glory to be like those people whom he said about “How many of the prophets fought (in God’s way), and with them (fought) large band of godly men? But they never lost heart in they met in disaster in God’s way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. and God loves those who are firm and steadfast. (Chapter 3, Verse 146).
Regarding failure, we don’t know what failure is. The real failure is in these agent regimes who betray their religion and their nation. The nation discovered their betrayal, their corruption and their cooperation with the enemies of Islam. The large percentage of non-participation in the last elections, and the large opposition to the government’s policies by the people, and the death of hundreds of youths in the ocean because of the clandestine immigration, and the repeated popular intifada, which the last one happened in Achlaf, and the proportion of the poverty and unemployment indices, and the growing union strikes, and the gap that grows day after day between the people and the government. These are all indicators of a real failure that becomes an emerged feature of all the governments of the Islamic Maghreb that are agents. If it is necessary to have a failure, then surely our failure is that we are for a long time unable to win the martyrdom and join our brothers who preceded us on the road of sacrifice and martyrdom: “O Lord! (they say), let not our hearts deviate now after thou guided us, but grant us mercy from thee: from thou art the grantor of bounties without measure.” (Chapter 3, Verse 7).
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